Deer Survey

[MK-M-GOBL]

Take it even though I doubt that F&G has any real plans to listen to the hunters of NH. But who knows They just might be starting to get smart.

First this is where I stand & is only my opinion. Many of you know too that I'm not afraid to show it either. I don't hide behind anything & can really careless what anyone thinks of my own personal opinions. I'm not an expert in deer management nor am I any kind of deer biologist. What I am though is a hunter that has experience with living & hunting in other states beside just NH or the NE area. Now I‘ve read it before where people search the records for numbers to crunch & to me that means nothing. I’m sure that F&G has based their system doing just that & look where it’s got us…no where. So please, save those for balancing your check book & open your eyes to trying something different.

Putting an AR in place is & would be a good thing period! It will stop these guys from shooting spikes, 3pters, 4pters and 5pters so these smaller deer can go on to breed & increase our heard numbers. Other things must happen & change in order to increase the deer numbers & deer sighting in NH.

1. For starters there should be a bounty placed on all coyotes or some kind of incentive to get people out there to get their numbers down.

2. They need to decrease the number of gun days. Think about it, how many other states you know of that have a gun season that last for 19 days on top of 11 days of muzzleloader? That’s 30 days (down from last years 33 days) total of hunters chasing deer with a gun.

3. I say put in an AR for everyone across the whole state!

4. Shorten the season’s dates. Heck, if all they did was the shortening of the seasons. This alone would help out the numbers & keep hunters interaction with deer low.

These are based off the 2010 calendar & the * is just like it is now with the firearms tag. If you kill your deer with the muzzleloader than your firearm tag is filled.

Archery = 1 deer w/second tag going to Unit M / either sex / 9-15 to 12-15
Early Muzzleloader* = 1 deer / either sex / 10-22 to 10-24
Youth Firearm = 1 deer / either sex / 11-6 to 11-7
Firearm* = 1 deer / buck only / 11-13 to 11-20
Firearm* = 1 deer / doe only / 11-21 to 11-27.
Muzzleloader* = 1 deer / either sex / 12-4 to 12-11

5. Money from Hunting & Fishing license needs to start going back into hunting & fishing! Keep my license money away from making hiking trail systems, search & rescue missions of idiots getting lost in the National Park.

So many people in PA were crying about the AR. It took roughly 4 seasons before all the cry babies stopped wining. Now my family & I are from PA so when I say cry babies, I’m talking about all of PA & my family as well. They all did their share of wining so don’t be taking my choice of words personally.

This is going to happen over night or even from one season to the next. It's going to take time! Hell, anything they do is going to take time so don't be like PA hunter & start crying before it has time to take affect. If after 4 year it's not working according to a hunters survey or probably the old NH number crunching then change it back to NH way.

[MK-M-GOBL]

Also, please don't be saying that our harsh winters is the problem Wisconsin, Michigan, New York and Canada have the same or even worst weather than here in NH & their deer numbers seem to be in a heck of a lot better shape than here in NH. So that excuse isn't going to fly.

Yes, Wisconsin & New York have better farm land to help the deer through those bad winters but the UP & Canada are mostly forest just like here in NH. If F&G took the license money away from the hiking trail & search & rescue programs, they could drop bails of hay in the deer years to help them through really bad winters. New York, Canada & Michigan have done because they care about their deer numbers. New Hampshire looks at as only Mother Nature keeping the heard in check.

[MK-M-GOBL]

My intent for mentioning those other states was not because I think we need numbers like what they have. It was to show that they think about their deer numbers in harsh winters & do their best to keep it by doing feeding programs

[soccerref]

I took it and didn't really like the questions. They were not really "do you want AR", they were more along "if we decide we have to manage the age structure, what do you want" Strange way to word a survey.

[MK-M-GOBL]

Pretty pathetic that there's only two three people sharing their thoughts or even concerned about what F&G might do.

No wonder the hunting sucks

[MK-M-GOBL]

Listening & reading what some uneducated people are saying about AR is getting old

First of all, one of the biggest misconception or uneducated thoughts of an antler restriction is that it’s for “trophy hunters” and it’s not. When I heard about Pennsylvania’s AR program (what…7 or 8 years ago?) was exactly that but it didn’t take very long to realize I was wrong.

I’m sure that if an AR were to be put into place, it probably would be along the lines of 3 points on one side. According to a trophy recording origination such as the P&Y Club or the B&C Clubs, there are hardly any (if any) 6 pointers in the books which are classified as a “trophy”. Now if NH came out with an AR of 5 or 6 points on a side, then saying it’s for the “trophy hunters” of NH would probably hold some water

So don't listen to someone who's stuck living in the past. Look into what AR programs have done in other states before you fall into believing it’s for “trophy hunters”. There’s a reason you keep hearing other states starting them up and it’s because it works!

[MK-M-GOBL]

The crying about the AR for "trophy hunters" is coming from other forums (not this one ) & guys in Jims shop I'm just trying to stop the misleading comments & thought that AR is for "trophy hunters" if it were to ever get talked about.

[MK-M-GOBL]

In all the states that have AR, it doesn't apply to the youth. I can't see F&G making the youth having to do that. As for making sacrifices for a better deer numbers, it's going to have to happen unless someone knows about a magic wand that fixes it all with one big wave of it ;D So if someone has one, please pm me! I've got things I could use it on

[firestormhtr]

Like every thing you mentioned Tom,I wouldn't mind an AR,when TC and i hunted pa,then they started the AR down there the second year into it,we saw a diffence in just 2 years,the area we hunted anyway.I talked to my brother inilaw in vermont the other night and he is really starting to see a big difference in theres,hes seen more quallity bucks in th past couple years then along time.well find out next weekend.I would like th to see th AR here.

[bowhunter603]

can i just go to the website to fill out the survey, or do i need the letter inthe mail, i have a new address and am worried i wont get it. AR would be the best thing for NH! i like the idea of all firearm doe tags to be done by lottery so that the take of does could be estimated a little better by each region of the state.

[danf]

I don't know if I have much of an opinion on the deer herd here, other than the hunting sucks compared to what I'm used to. But coming from a state where the annual harvest is over 120k EVERY year to NH is enough to make me think hard about whether or not it's worth hunting deer here....

I've been involved in enough internet discussions to be the first to start screaming that Kentucky is NOT the same as Indiana, Illinois is NOT the same as Indiana, Michigan is NOT the same as Indiana- you get the picture. It's the same with New Hampshire and all the other states. To compare what PA is doing to what NH is doing simply doesn't work due to the circumstances, geography and genetics.

IMHO, what an AR will accomplish is a likely reduction in the deer harvest, at least for a few years. A better means to this end is to reduce the quotas. Killing does is certainly not helping the herd numbers. Hammering the herd with a modern muzzleloader season before rifle isn't not helping any either.

I have not done the survey yet, but personally what I'd rather see is either a primitive (sidelock and iron sights) ML season in the current time slot or move the ML season to the second half of December. Moving the rifle season back a week would also help- more does will be bred during the rut which will help the population.

However, reducing the harvest will do nothing if the deer do not make it through the winter. A feeding program would likely have to be implemented for any noticeable different to happen.

Like all things state related, it's going to take a while to see any results, if any results are ever seen. The goals are going to have to be established and produced for all to see and understand. They will have to be continually be re-evaluated on a continual basis and the implementation will have to be adjusted after evaluation. Having a clear and published set of goals and a means to that end will go a long way towards getting where the F&G ultimately wants to be.

[soccerref]

One of the points the survey made, or at least what I got from it, is that the AR would be to manage the age structure of the herd, IF needed, and that in most parts of the state, this currenlty was not needed.

I'd like to deer population to grow. Period. I don't want to be restricted to what size deer I can shoot, UNLESS THERE'S A BIOLOGY RELATED DEER HERD HEALTH REASON. Maintaining a healthy herd is the #1, and only, priority in my mind.

anectodotal evidence only: The deer that I know of that are taken where I do my primary gun hunting (area D2, in the Lincoln/Easton area) would, fo rthe most part, qualify under any reasonable AR system, they are not routinely spikes/4 pts. The ones I've taken, my family has taken and we've seen taken up there, tend towards 160+ lbs and 6-12 points. I can think of only 2 spikes taken.

Also, I happened to swing by wildlife sports Saturday morning on my way home. They had trucks backed up in the lot, MOST of the 10-12 trucks had bucks 6+ points. Two does, big ones, and one yearling.

also, talking to a friend, in area M hunting, he runs a pool, leading deer 4 pt. So who really knows.

[Scout]

Wow! I took the survey. My take on this. Do they even have any idea as to how many deer are in this state. Are there figures back by actual data, or by a statistical number. Shouldn't they first concentrate on getting the deer numbers to carrying capacity first. I'm no deer biologist, but I can sure tell you that the area I hunt is no where near where they say it is. I can also honestly say that the town I live in cannot support the anterless deer program anymore. By Friday our town will be flooded with hunters. Last year I started fisher trapping in our town the second week in Dec. I counted nine tree stands in about a 3-5 acre parcel. I took out two plastic pails and one milk crate. They need to stop the political game and do whats right for the deer herd. If that means reducing hunting seasons, antler restrictions, doe permits than that's what they need to do. I always have believed and still do; we should get together as sportsman and woman and hire and outside agency to evaluate our deer herds condition to see if they come up with the same results as our F&G has. Sorry for the long post, just a very touchy topic with me.

[NHGriff]

I admire Tom's ability to hold out for big bucks only. I wish I had the same will power. Part of the reason I will be heading out tomorrow is that I can shoot the first deer I see. I know that it's counter productive to increasing the deer herd and I hope that the first deer I see is a huge 5 year old 8 pointer, but since it's legal and I feel like I've been out there trying for 2 months to get a deer I'm frustrated.

I feel like the state is screwing with people by allowing doe's to be taken. It gives you the impression that you will at least have some success so they sell more licenses. But really all it is doing is driving the herd down further. If I knew from the get go that I could only shoot bucks my expectations would go down and I may not have hunted this year. But if it is successful I would love to hunt in the future when the success rate went up and the quality and quantity of deer went up. Look...I don't want a 100% success rate but I at least want to be able to see deer. At this rate I will probably concentrate on hunting grouse and waterfowl next year and leave the deer hunting for another trip and state. I've just spent too many unproductive hours in stands and too much money on stands, cameras and bowhunting equipment to justify it anymore.

[bowhunter603]

i agree that there are very few areas that have any deer numbers even close to carrying capaciity. also, blaming the bad winters sounds bogus to me. in most areas of the state (except the mountains and the extreme north) the coyotes are the major source of winter kill not the quality of the habitat.