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Post by browning204 on Oct 20, 2008 15:40:03 GMT
What would be a better round for a critter that can kick my butt round.
.45 acp or a .357?
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Post by nastygunz on Oct 20, 2008 23:45:25 GMT
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Post by omega47 on Oct 21, 2008 0:02:20 GMT
Definitely the .357. Has much better penetration energy than .45ACP on thick skinned animals. My outdoor carry preference is .44 Mag, but since I don't any revolvers or pistols any more, I just carry one in my head  |
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Post by browning204 on Oct 21, 2008 0:36:34 GMT
.357 even though the .45 acp is alot of lead? I think I might go with a taurus revolver (shut up Nasty!)
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Post by omega47 on Oct 21, 2008 19:45:02 GMT
Again, 45ACP round was designed for one purpose - to kill humans and stop them in their tracks. We have tissue thin skin. They are not very good at penetrating fur bearing animals, especially those with thick skin like bear.
If you are set on carrying a pistol vs a revolver, the 10mm does make a good hunting/defense round if loaded with the proper bullet. I've seen 10mm used to kill boar and performance was similar to a .357.
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Post by browning204 on Oct 22, 2008 1:23:32 GMT
I don't shoot Glocks, one of the reasons is like yours. The way I shoot them, I might as well use it as a club.
Now give me a 1911 and it is a different story.
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Post by omega47 on Oct 22, 2008 2:40:39 GMT
Same here - I have friends who shoot glocks but I couldn't hit a bear from 10' with one. I do a lot better with the heavier metal framed pistols with smooth single stage triggers. I've got a little Romanian PA-63 Walther PPK clone in 9x18 Makarov. I've done a lot of work making the trigger smooth as glass and reducing the trigger pull from 22lbs to 6lbs. My son and I go out in the woods shooting that thing at old stumps and stuff and it's really accurate.
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Post by MK-M-GOBL on Oct 22, 2008 13:45:29 GMT
I just picked up the Glock 20 (10mm) for critter defense...gotta practice more, cause I could throw the thing at a bear and have a better chance of hitting hit ;D ;D ;D That's why I got rid of my Glock 27  |
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Post by nastygunz on Oct 23, 2008 0:09:27 GMT
if your wanting critter protection and wanna hit it on the move get a big ole canister of bear pepper spray....it has a higher stoppage rate on grizzlies then guns do and should whup about anyhting you fog with it....i once broke up a violent dog attack with my duty spray and also out dueled a skunk in a chemical warfare scenario that left him running into the side of the house digging his face and eyes...he threatened to spary me right by my porch.....I sprayed first haha...ironic no?.....having been sprayed to be certified IT HURTSSSSS!
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Post by nastygunz on Oct 23, 2008 0:25:25 GMT
March 27, 2008 New analysis from Brigham Young University suggests that those traveling in bear territory may be better off leaving the guns at home and packing pepper-spray instead. The bears , we expect, agree.
This advice - along with some other invaluable hints for dealing with bears in the wild - comes from associate professor of wildlife science Thomas S. Smith, who along with his colleagues studied 71 bear spray incidents over 20 years in Alaska, where there are an estimated 150,000 bears. The findings showed that cans of bear pepper spray, which are available for around $30-$40) were effective in deterring aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Smith's previous research showed that guns were effective only about 67 percent of the time. Understandable, this is in part this is due the fact that in trying to shoot straight with a 1200 pound grizzly bearing down on you is not an easy task, particularly when it takes an average of four hits to stop the attack.
"People working or recreating in bear habitat should feel confident they are safe if carrying bear spray," Smith said.
The study also establishes the effectiveness of the spray itself (though the data did not allow a comparison between brands). "Working in the bear safety arena, I even found a lot of resistance to bear spray among professionals," Smith said of the product. "There was no good, clean data set that demonstrated definitively that it worked, so that's why we did this research."
The research also found that 35 percent of incidents studied involved hikers, with 30 percent involving bear management activities and that 60 percent of the incidents occurred between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. Seventy percent of the incidents studied involved brown (grizzly) bears, 28 percent involved black bearshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bear and in the first documented cases, two involved polar bears. It also showed that use of the spray will rarely be effected by windy conditions and of the 71 incidents documented, only a small percentage resulted in any level of harm to the user with 10 incidents of minor irritation and two of near incapacitation.
Interestingly, the study also found that the practice of spraying tentshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tent and camp equipment as a deterrent is likely to backfire, with bears actually being attracted by this method in 11 cases.
During his 16 years of field work Smith has never had cause to use the spray himself - proof that using caution and knowing what you are dealing with is the best deterrent of all. Indeed Smith believes that one of the key reasons that the spray works is that it stops the user from running a way - a bad move when faced with bear attack.
Smith and co-authors on the paper are Stephen Herrero, professor emeritus at the University of Calgary; Terry D. Debruyn of the National Park Service, and James M. Wilder of Minerals Management Service, report their findings in the April issue of the Journal of Wildlife Management.
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Post by nastygunz on Oct 23, 2008 0:31:08 GMT
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Post by MK-M-GOBL on Oct 23, 2008 1:03:40 GMT
How about this bad boy |
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Post by omega47 on Oct 23, 2008 1:09:45 GMT
Good article. I can vouch for the fact that many mammals, not just bears love pepper spray residue. My wife used to have a big problem with squirrels raiding her bird feeder (back when we had squirrels here). At first she tried lacing the bird seed with ground up jalapeno peppers like the bird food stores told her to do, but our squirrels liked the hot stuff. They brought more friends and we became a Taco Bell for squirrels. Then she tried pepper spraying them to drive them off but they just came back later to lap up the residue off the snow.  |
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Post by nastygunz on Oct 23, 2008 9:16:15 GMT
I bet they would have loved some little tiny shot glasses of tequila to wash that down ")
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