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Post by highwaystar on Feb 26, 2007 0:37:33 GMT
Myself I have to see. I think I am claustrophobic. Did I say that. Had the traveling shoes on today and made a point to hit the thick cover. Yes , I'm trying to work this out . Why, the coyotes are there. I found some good sign today and tracks. With the last snow they changed there patterns and I lost them. But, found them in the cover. Snow was not as deep and traveling was easier for them. Working on the set up and how I might use a buddy. okanagan. How about sounds on your caller and how much volume? I saw snowshoe rabbit sign, fox, and squirrel. Birds too! Crow, woodpecker, blue jay. I'm thinking Distress sounds and lay off the coyote sounds. I play coyote sounds full volume and in the thick cover I'm thinking to much. Distress at 70% volume. I'm thinking soft volume. With the less volume less distance between set ups. More setups in thick cover. Trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Its been hard. But, today it was fun!!! Highwaystar
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Post by browning204 on Feb 26, 2007 1:47:16 GMT
I went out today also, should have stayed home!
saw lots of sign, Deer, Moose, coyote, coon and birds, flushed a Grouse that scared the crap outta me!
I didn't get out till about 10am, the sun was bright and I was to hot while traveling. The half frozen snow made it hard to get around. I did 1 stand and called it a day.
I got a new digital video camera so I was hoping to get a critter on film, no such luck!
Hey Highway star: My new camera has Night vision on it!
For some reason I tend to go toward the more open areas with hopes of seeing a coyote long before I have to pull the trigger.
Even though I know they ain't gonna expose themselves in the open during daylight, I still find myself doing it!!!
Maybe the thick stuff is where it is at.
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Post by critterstalker on Feb 26, 2007 21:25:42 GMT
Browning, It seems to be human nature to want to set up a stand on an open area. I guess we all want to be able to scan a large opening in hopes of catching something popping out. I need to get away from this mentality as well because nothing up here just runs across an opening. How much snow do you guys have on the ground down there? Are you using snowshoes or just hiking in boots? Glad to hear you got out and saw some wildlife, those Grouse are heart attacks waiting to happen.
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Post by browning204 on Feb 26, 2007 21:44:55 GMT
we have about 5 inches in the woods and I was hiking in boots.
I am going out tonight after some coons, I talked the girlfriend into going out with me and running the camera. Hopefully we will have something to film and show.
I will put her in a tree stand so she feels safe and I will sit under her with the .17 hmr
I think if we see a critter she will be nervous!! But I told her the rules, Don't stop filming!!!
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Post by critterstalker on Feb 26, 2007 21:55:48 GMT
Good rules..lol.. Make sure you dress her warm, so that she'll want to go again. See if you can get one of those coons to put its head into that WT speaker and then kick it on full volume when it's looking in. You might not need to shoot it if you do that.
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Post by okanagan on Feb 27, 2007 4:13:05 GMT
okanagan. How about sounds on your caller and how much volume? I'm thinking Distress sounds and lay off the coyote sounds. I play coyote sounds full volume and in the thick cover I'm thinking to much. Distress at 70% volume. I'm thinking soft volume. With the less volume less distance between set ups. More setups in thick cover. Trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Its been hard. But, today it was fun!!! Highwaystar Sounds like you are doing well and on the right track to me. As you know, I'm no expert on Eastern conditions, though I wouldn't hesitate a minute to try to call there. Yes, I'd go with lower volume. If it is really thick, I might try a short series of lip squeeks every 30 -60 seconds and nothing else for ten minutes. I used about half volume on the bobcat I mentioned and a little more on the coyote, with a Minaska M1, their smallest unit. The coyote came in to the Bobcat Special sound done by Buker, I think. It sounds like a frenetic bird distress. And yes, I'd go with prey sound only to start. Rodents are quieter, and cottontail can stay pretty low. If you scout an area and it has coyote sign that is fresh, day old, three days old, etc. it means they are coming back there regularly probably to hole up or sleep if it is thick cover. If you have the time, scout it once without calling and pick out stand location(s) for different wind and light conditions. When you return, you can ease into a pre-selected spot with minimal disturbance. I said earlier that I hadn't scouted coyotes, which is true, but I have scouted for good coyote stand locations many times, intending to hunt them my next trip. In my situation, I knew there were coyotes in the area, within range of a call. My intent was to scout enough to pre-select a stand with the advantages on my side if any coyote(s) came in. I don't think coyotes use holes much until denning season, but I have observed a coyote sleeping in the same spot under a bush most days at the same time for several weeks. The most consistent one then left and over the next three years, I never saw a coyote lying in that spot. That anecdote just to say that I think that repeated and fresh sign of a coyote using a comfortable, safe and handy bedding spot is an indicator that he is likely to use it again in the short term so call it ASAP. I've been gone several days. Just got an e-mail on my return that a friend who started calling with me and said he was going to try some thicker spots, got a bobcat with a set up in unbroken timber. He could see out to 40 yards in one lane. The cat loped to within 15 yards of the call and he shot it at 20-25 yards from where he sat. In cover the animals move much more freely. Don't know what to do about claustrophobia, but understand it well. FWIW, trying to see more has cost me more critters, (deer, elk, cougar, etc.) than being stuck where I couldn't see enough. Though I admit, too often I can only see a little... of the wrong spot. That's where knowing what the animal is highly likely to do in a given terrain/circumstance pays off big time. Nobody seems to write about that yet that is what I concentrate on learning more about all of the time. Most animals that I call, including coyotes, show up where I expect them to. I'm getting really interested and engaged in your hunts. Golly I would like to try it with you. Good luck, and please do post what happened on your stands. Analyzing what happened is how the animals taught me what little I know about how to call them. You got the good part down: it is fun!
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Post by okanagan on Feb 27, 2007 18:13:19 GMT
In the daylight and now wide awake, I'll clarify my comments a bit. Yes, I would try quieter prey sounds and nothing else for an entire stand, and slip away without using coyote vocals at least once. If nothing showed up, I'd come back another day with yet another prey sound and then maybe try adding a vocal. And I'd stick with a lip squeek sound off and on for at least 20 minutes, maybe longer if it seemed right or there was any indication of something out there. I've called coyotes, bobcats and bears with nothing but a lip squeek, when I didn't have a call with me. With an electronic, I'd use the highest pitched one if you have a selection or can record your own.
I try to sound like a mouse in distress. On the blackbear called with lip squeeks, I found a rotten log freshly ripped open to expose a mouse nest. I looked around for a bear and saw him when I moved another 50 yards. When I squeeked, he came on a run.
If the cover is impossbily thick, such as a blackberrry or other tight thicket, it will force animals to use existing trails or open slots. Count on it and set up accordingly. You are smarter than he is. He has better senses and instincts. Use them against him.
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Post by browning204 on Feb 28, 2007 0:27:35 GMT
as always, good post and information! you seem to have your stuff figured out!
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Post by okanagan on Feb 28, 2007 17:32:12 GMT
"as always, good post and information! you seem to have your stuff figured out! "
Seem is the operative word! It sounds good on paper (or a computer screen!) I keep trying to figure it out more.
My way to work at that is to think through what happened on every stand: terrain, wind, light, cover, what the animal did, what other animals and birds did, elapsed times till each thing happened, etc. I'm not a great shot so like close shots at animals standing still, so try to achieve such conditions. As you know, I post on Predator masters a bit but most of those guys know it all and aren't interested in animal behaviour inside of 200 yards, only in body counts. You guys in the east, with fewer coyotes and less open range, have incentive to actually learn animal characteristics. Good on you.
Analyzing what three lynx did, and I never saw any of them, taught me more about calling cats than all other sources. I thought for days about what could possibly be a consistent factor in their totally different approaches, and killed the 4th lynx called. Actually, my partner killed it. We were lucky. I positioned my partner and said that the lynx would most likely appear in a certain spot about six feet wide,. He could see a wide view, but he shot the large male lynx in the anticipated spot less than three minutes into the calling stand.
Maybe the longer story is useful. I set up for the first lynx like I would a coyote. He sneaked in, saw me and left. I set up for lynx #2 (tracks in snow to locate these) to take advantage of what #1 did. That one sneaked in a different way, saw me and left. I set up for #3 based on what the second one did, and that one also sneaked in yet another way, saw me and left. Hmmm....
I don't like to give away the hard learned best stuff, so will not say more. This is probably giving away too much. I had a mentor on coyotes who taught me to do the same with them: analyze what they do in response to certain factors, and take advantage of that.
I know I am talking cats quite a bit, because they interest me more. But the point is to figure out characteristics or traits common to a species. I have applied this investigative technique to coyotes, foxes, black and grizzly bears, whitetails, mule deer, black tail deer, moose, mountain goats, and this Fall did some experiments with caribou to learn their response patterns. But when I started I just wanted to shoot a coyote, not to learn animal behaviours, so I am sure it sounds like a lot of cerebral hassle. Have fun, hunt, and if you have the curiosity, you’ll see patterns and traits emerge from your experience.
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Post by critterstalker on Mar 1, 2007 19:06:29 GMT
okanagan, You hit on some excellent pointers for determining how to attack different situations. Analyzing how a stand works or doesn't work is probably one of the most important tools that hunter's have, if utilized. I too like to hunt the thick cover for cats, Lynx particularly since that's all we have here. In utilizing my electronic caller and in talking with a guy who shot over 60 Lynx one season, the cats love to circle the speaker. In the beginning stages of my calling, I liked to point the speaker away from me, thinking that animals would be coming into the speaker. I learned that in most situations, Lynx like to circle on the "quiet" side of the speaker, which was causing me to not see animals because they were basically going to my back side into even thicker cover. When I started pointing the speaker facing me, the animals would circle, but in the direction I was expecting them. If the setup is done right, even in thick cover, I'll leave whatever lanes are available for sight and position the speaker to force them to expose themselves. Have you noticed that same pattern with your cats? Great information, thanks for sharing. I've got a few other tricks that I use, but I'll keep those in the bag as I don't want to give everything away...lol
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Post by okanagan on Mar 2, 2007 3:41:23 GMT
critterstalker, thanks for the good tip! I learned something. I hadn't noticed cats circling to the quieter side of the call but your comment explains the approach of several. I haven't used an electronic call very long, not enough to verify, but I have had cats circle and come in tight behind my very directional hand calling. I point the call and cup my hands to project the sound much louder in one direction, though I "pan" around and spread that sound somewhat at the beginning of a series, but not as time goes on. I will set up my speakers now with this in mind. Thanks.
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