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Post by regnar on Nov 29, 2008 0:12:43 GMT
Ok, I am going to give yotes another try. I need (ok not really but you know ;D) a rifle for it. I am leaning towards a rimfire over a centerfire simply because it is less hassle in the tight quarters I will be hunting in zone m and the southern part of zone L. What are your opinions on the .17hmr vs the 22mag? SHot distance will rarely be over 100 yards. I know that shot placement is key with both but even more so with the .17 but I am not concerned with that. I am an above average marksmen (although my record this deer season would dispute that ) so I am very comfortable with with waiting for that perfect shot. Here are the things I am considering. If there are others please let me know. lethality, is one more so than the other all things equal accuracy, I think the .17 is slightly more accurate but for my purpose 1.5-2 moa is fine. rifle there seems to be some better offerings in .17 than in 22mag at reasonable prices (less than 400) Glass, all set in that department muzzle report, rimfires less than a centerfire, less attention to me from neighbors. I am looking at a savage Model 93BTVS if I go 22mag or a Marlin NEW Model 917VT in I go .17 ( I dont think it comes in 22mag) Any suggestions or recommendations are welcome.
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Post by browning204 on Nov 29, 2008 1:49:19 GMT
Regnar, Why a rimfire other than noise? I would not shoot rimfire at NH coyotes. You will have more runners and painfully slow deaths from the rimfire.
You can hunt coyote ANYWHERE in the state with center fire. That is a FACT. The only restrictions is night hunting.
Remember my coyote story? 2 shots with the .223 and I still lost that coyote. The first shot was through the neck and into the shoulders. Second was in the ass.
I would not shoot anything bigger than Grey fox with a rimfire. I know people do it but it doesn't make it right!
But if you MUST, I would go .17HMR for the added range you will get. Better make your shots perfect!
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Post by regnar on Nov 29, 2008 2:35:53 GMT
I under stand that about being able to shoot a rimfire but where I will be hunting it is just not something I would do for the simple fact of making the people who's land I am hunting on uncomfortable. I am doing this because I have the opportunity to get some prime deer hunting land that is posted hard.
As far as runners, what is the big deal about that? I mean us bow hunters have to track just about every animal we shoot. It is part of the game. And I dont think a coyote running off and dying is any different than a deer shot with a gun that does the same thing. I dont want the animal to suffer and will do everything I can to make a perfect shot but when something goes wrong and it will I am prepared and able to handle it.
Why do you recommend the .17? What does it offer in increased range and what is the range you would use it at? I hear people say that neither are long rang calibers but no one says what long range is. For me it is 500m. For this application I will be shooting around 100m and never any further than 150, not becuase I cant but because the land does not allow for anything further.
Thanks for the feed back and hope to get more.
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Post by nastygunz on Nov 29, 2008 16:44:31 GMT
WTH!?!.........so because of 1 shot that happened to you the .223 which is universally used as the main coyote round is no good?...next time I miss a duck I am going to toss my 12 gauge into the river and buy a 10 gauge!...Regnar, here is a great link on this subject from a fella name the Blakeinator who is a proponent of and hammers coyotes with a .17 HMR.... www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173754&highlight=Blakeinator He makes alot of sense in this thread, maybe it will help you make a choice, Nasty. Regnar, Why a rimfire other than noise? I would not shoot rimfire at NH coyotes. You will have more runners and painfully slow deaths from the rimfire. You can hunt coyote ANYWHERE in the state with center fire. That is a FACT. The only restrictions is night hunting. Remember my coyote story? 2 shots with the .223 and I still lost that coyote. The first shot was through the neck and into the shoulders. Second was in the ass. I would not shoot anything bigger than Grey fox with a rimfire. I know people do it but it doesn't make it right! But if you MUST, I would go .17HMR for the added range you will get. Better make your shots perfect!
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Post by nastygunz on Nov 29, 2008 16:52:49 GMT
If you do a search youll find page after page of different people debating the .17/.22 question, some for,some against. I have a .223 and .17hmr and in southern NH use the .17 more just because of the noise and less ricochet chance.
I have not shot a coyote with my .17 hmr....yet, but I have no fear of taking it out calling, and complete confidence I can pop one in the boiler room....and I agree with the guy in the article who is against feeling you need a head shot to do the job....as a bow hunter yourself, I think youll agree with his thought on going for the boiler room shot, it just makes sense.
Its noisy but most places i hit in NH i use the 12 gauge with #4 buck shot, fast and perfect for the woods and brush.
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Post by MK-M-GOBL on Nov 29, 2008 18:28:23 GMT
Between the two choices you threw out there....I'd go with the 22mag. Only because I grew up on one and flatten hundreds (probably more like a thousands) of ground hogs and a lot fox with it. You really need to have it dialed in you're looking to make a shot in the 100 to 125 yard range. I like the Marlin 25MN Buy a good scope; throw on a Timney trigger, a nice bi-pod and you're good to go. Sorry browning but I'm a little confused here. If you never got the coyote and you lost him, how do you know you hit it through the neck & shoulders with the second shot being in the ass? Now on to your shot, my brother (deershed) is the only person I know that can consistently shoot and drop deer in their tracks with a neck shot. I've seen him do it for years and I’ve always been in awe about it. I say that because I've also known plenty of guys that try it and it turns into a long tracking job or worst, a lost deer. I won’t take it simply because I’m not comfortable or confident to try it but that just me. Trying for a neck shot on a coyote seems to me even more challenging than on a deer; especially when done night hunting. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, if you had the shot that coyote in the boiler room...I'd bet you a thousand grand he wouldn't have gone far with the 223 round
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Post by nastygunz on Nov 29, 2008 22:47:01 GMT
I like to hunt em in the woods so I can shoot a branch off and have it fall on em and killem....much easier on the hide ")....its like reverse barking a squirrel...")...the guy in the article says the .22 mag and the . 17 hmr are so close he doesnt even discuss which one is better.
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Post by regnar on Nov 29, 2008 22:47:30 GMT
Thanks Nasty, I'm sold. 17hmr it is. I love the comparison to bowhunting. I would have only taken those shots anyway. I would not shoot at an animals ass that I wanted to kill.
Now for the weapon. I think it will be a Marlin or a Savage just because of the price. I have a great piece of glass 6x24 bauch & Lomb. Not sure if the 6 is to much but its a start.
thanks guys
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Post by nastygunz on Nov 30, 2008 0:12:15 GMT
Of course theres no law against owning both haha....I also would like to say that I really like the 17 grain polymer tips for crow sniping and woodchucking....they are so light and frangible that a ricochet is not likely as they blow up easily...great for those long field shots....lot of fun stalking crows in the fields and nailing em, for heavier stuff I use the 20 grains...I nailed a beauty of a red fox right behind the right elbow of his front leg with a 20 grainer....he bucked once and was down...distance was about 30 yards..
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Post by browning204 on Nov 30, 2008 3:56:02 GMT
Sorry browning but I'm a little confused here. If you never got the coyote and you lost him, how do you know you hit it through the neck & shoulders with the second shot being in the ass? I wasn't aiming for the neck, the shot that the Coyote presented me with was a head on shot. I was sitting on a hill above the caller. I was on a hill, caller down below me, then a swamp and on the other side of the swamp was a hill going up, it was fairly steep on that side. The coyote came down the other hill across the swamp and stopped to look at the caller. So with me being up and the coyote being down I was aiming head on and down on him. I put the red dot between its shoulder blades and forgot to make up for the down hill shot so I hit it right through the top of its neck. The coyote was 40 yards at best from me and I watched the impact. It went right through as I watched it exit and hit the ground. My follow up shot in a string of semi-rapid fire hit it in the ass. Again I watched the bullet connect and send the coyote into a 360 before laying it down. In my excitement I rushed over, got barked at and it ran. Followed its blood trail/splatter/bloody paw print and could even see where it rested until we got close again. Never did find it. We marked our paths with tape and retraced everything over and over. THO was there and can vouch for this. So my point is this, was my shot bad? Probably a little, BUT if that critter survived two blasts from a .223 then what about a .17 HMR. I have a .17HMR it is a Marlin 917v and I love the rifle. accurate as a hell. Good Fox and other smaller critter rifle. Don't get me wrong, if I was calling any thing and a Coyote stopped in to say hi and it was close, I would take a crack at it. But i wouldn't make a .17 HMR my "coyote" rifle. Smallest I would go is my .204 but that round is also stupid fast and accurate! I KNOW NASTY, lots of guys do it...... thats fine for them I guess!
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Post by regnar on Dec 1, 2008 0:03:54 GMT
Browning,
I thin what they are trying to say is that with out recovering the animal, you dont know what kind of hit you placed on it. It does not matter if you were using a 7mm rem mag, If not hit in the correct place it will not kill it. I have a friend I was stationed with who got shot with a 12.7mm mg in Panama. He took one round through the arm and one through the stomach. Neither hit anything vital and he is still in the big sand box wacking bad guys.
Point is, if you do your part and put it in the kill zone it will die. Same as bow hunting. You cant take shots at a deer like you would with a gun. You must be patient and wait for the shot and not make a shot happen.
To each their own but after all my research it seems that the people who say the .17 is now way a coyote round are the same people who say that bow hunting is not fair to the deer.
Hope to make it to the post this week!!
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Post by regnar on Dec 1, 2008 0:45:56 GMT
Browning,
Are you a member of Chester? If so would you meet me there some day( or where ever you shot) and let me see the difference in the .17 and the 204? KTP has a 204 barrel foe the encore with a scope for 275? I know the manager and might be able to get it for less. I dont know, to many choices!!!
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Post by browning204 on Dec 1, 2008 1:13:26 GMT
I used to be a member but I let it laps, I can still get in anyways.
I would love to show the difference and you can shoot my rifles if you want.
Finding the time is the hard part though.
When are you thinking?
p.s. don't forget about the .17 rem center fire. Real small center fire with blazing speed! Lots of guys out west hunt coyote with them, good on fur. I saw one being fired in chester, I could watch the bullet path because of the distorsion in the air. It was wicked cool!
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Post by omega47 on Dec 1, 2008 3:06:46 GMT
Regnar, use a shotgun with #4 buck shot. Unit M is getting too dense to use rifles anyway. Any stray shot is liable to hurt someone. Probably the same in L too. If you must have a rifle, get a .204 Ruger or .223 Rem. Use Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets (you can buy in commercial rounds or reload yourself). The reason to use Barnes is two-fold. They'll drop a yote in 1 shot instantly and secondly, they are frangibles so if you miss, the bullet will shatter to dust the first solid object it hits. Besides, if you go with .223, you still have a ton of practice rounds on hand, right
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Post by regnar on Dec 1, 2008 3:36:05 GMT
LOL yes I do omega!
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